Curse

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Invincible means cannot be killed last time I checked enchant removal > solo farming monks simply throw in a few monsters with enchant removal and you will be fine. If they are so invincible how come no one brings them into PvP? Because they will get owned simple as that, rend him and hes finished. You dont need to change the game simply throw in new monsters with a few of the many types of enchant removal and the problem is fixed. No need for 15 page debates.

Oh and another thing how is that skill "OVERPOWESERDR AND ABUEST TO MAX~!!~!~!" if it can be easily removed with 1 type of skill that amost every type of character in the game has? I suggest you learn the game before you cry about it.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by c h a v e z

Invincible means cannot be killed last time I checked enchant removal > solo farming monks simply throw in a few monsters with enchant removal and you will be fine. If they are so invincible how come no one brings them into PvP? Because they will get owned simple as that, rend him and hes finished. You dont need to change the game simply throw in new monsters with a few of the many types of enchant removal and the problem is fixed. No need for 15 page debates.

Throwing in new monsters is changing the game, and for more than one class. Dont cure the symptoms, cure the root cause.

Oh, and I've never called them invincimonks, Its horribly inaccurate and used by the clowns buying the piece of shit necro focus off noobs for 75g and selling it by advertising it as part of the "invincible monk" build for 20k.

I've always called them monkroaches cause first there were a few, now they are all over the place, and also because of how grenth crawls with monkroaches right before we win favor.

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

when you throw in new monsters you need to evaluate what this will do to everyone..not just the farmers. Have you been through prophets path lately...the rockshot idea was great. Lets add a bunch of rockshots to the map so that farmers have to know pull up all the rockshots..then suicide grab their +20 health icon run back out and solo the griffons/minotaurs without aggroing the rockshots. Easy enough for the farmers, takes an extra 2 minutes. But for everyone else that has to play that area....they now have to deal with the most uncreative monster ever put into a video game....and it gets incredibly tedious.

invinci-monk, the term, was most assuredly coined by someone that never played the build and only saw that they can take massive amounts of damage(albeit it's only physical)

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Throwing in new monsters is changing the game, and for more than one class. Dont cure the symptoms, cure the root cause.

Actually no, that would be changing the level, nerfing skills would be changing the game, why not counter the problem with one of the many skills in the game that amost every class has.

A skill or skills only become unbalanced when there is NO way to counter it or you have to change most of or all your build to counter it making you vulnerable to every other build out there (spirit spamming). Since monsters are not limited to 8 people they could throw in a few extra or, if that would make it too hard for you simply change the professions of the monsters in the UW.

Enchantmens however, are NOT overpowered as they can easily be removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

invinci-monk, the term, was most assuredly coined by someone that never played the build and only saw that they can take massive amounts of damage(albeit it's only physical)

until you remove the enchants they have on them, but then again you dont know how to do that. do you?

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by c h a v e z

Actually no, that would be changing the level, nerfing skills would be changing the game, why not counter the problem with one of the many skills in the game that amost every class has.

until you remove the enchants they have on them, but then again you dont know how to do that. do you?

you n00b...you can't remove enchantments

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

invinci-monk, the term, was most assuredly coined by someone that never played the build and only saw that they can take massive amounts of damage(albeit it's only physical)

INCORRECT, elemental/dark/chaos/light damages also have no limit of reduction thru the abuse of protbond. the only things that do not are degens Phantasm/bleed/poison.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by c h a v e z

Actually no, that would be changing the level, nerfing skills would be changing the game, why not counter the problem with one of the many skills in the game that amost every class has.

ok how about this, changing the lvl is changing the game, the level is a part of the game, thus it IS changing the game, but for EVERYONE who goes there. Changing the skill is also changing the game, but if its done correctly it will only effect ONE class.

Again, deal with the root cause, not the symptom.

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

INCORRECT, elemental/dark/chaos/light damages also have no limit of reduction thru the abuse of protbond. the only things that do not are degens Phantasm/bleed/poison.

it would have been more apt for me to use a term other than "physical" as I meant physical in that anything that hits you...singling out degens as the only thing that prot bond doesn't protect against. You are correct, an oversight on my part.

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Again, deal with the root cause, not the symptom.

The root cause being that it's much more beneficial to solo than it is to have a party.

Theos · Aug 25, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

INCORRECT, elemental/dark/chaos/light damages also have no limit of reduction thru the abuse of protbond. the only things that do not are degens Phantasm/bleed/poison.

Certain life steals will go through prot bond, but the numer is so low its sad. What maybe one skill, Shadow Strike. Actually I think all skills with a second damage based on condition ignore prot bond. I have tested only Shadow Strike, I will test Chill and some others later.

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

The root cause being that it's much more beneficial to solo than it is to have a party.

correction*

the root problem being that 99% of the playerbase is either
A) semi to fully retarded
B) immature enough to think that dick and fart jokes are humerous
C) incapable of playing the game properly
D) a waste of time

I don't see this problem ever being fixed...soloers will continue to solo because they don't want to deal with problems A through D....

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Those are some of the benefits, yes. =D

Theos · Aug 25, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

correction*

the root problem being that 99% of the playerbase is either
A) semi to fully retarded
B) immature enough to think that dick and fart jokes are humerous
C) incapable of playing the game properly
D) a waste of time

I don't see this problem ever being fixed...soloers will continue to solo because they don't want to deal with problems A through D....

Or maybe they are all elitists like you who are to good for everyone else? Thats what I gather: "I really don't want to put up with people who aren't as good as me." Good job. You must not enjoy the company of people.

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Theos, that's crap. The vast majority of PUGs suck. They really suck. You can't blame people for not wanting to deal with them and the frustration that goes along with them.

EDIT: For the record, when I said soloing is more beneficial I was referring to XP, drops, and gold. Not just the precarious social situations that being in a group involves.

Teklord · Aug 25, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Okay, I can get in on this one. It is incorrect to say that the vast majority of PUGs suck. The only time I have ever encountered multiple PUGs that could not do the job was at the Elona Reach mission the first time I was there. I spent 4 hours one night and walked away without success (had to go to bed). The next day I grabbed all henchies and successfully completed the mission on my first try with 5 minutes to spare. However, every other place in the game I have gotten involved with PUGs has met with great success, and even a few additions to my friends list.

Thus "The vast majority of PUGs suck" statement is 100% false.

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

He is right there are a lot of dumb people playing the game. Refer to my thread in the screenshot section.

I can also remember countless times where I tell people, ok we are going left when times hits zero, hmmm it looks like they are smiting ok lets try to stay spread and and dont stand in balths. First thing that happens is they all rush in and croud around 1 person who has mass smites on him and we end up dieing in 5 seconds meanwhile they are calliing all our monks noobs for not being able to out heal their idiocy.

AeroLion · Aug 25, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I see your anecdote and raise you this entire forum's collective experience with PUGs.

Silmor · Aug 25, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Bad PUGs are a seperate problem, and should not influence the debate on whether protective bond setups are in need of a nerf. Stop using it as an excuse for unrelated issues.

And about adding enchantment removal everywhere... I'm getting rather tired of being chilblain'ed at every corner already on non-enchantment heavy characters. Encounters in PvE are boring enough as it is, if every single one of them contains enchantment removal, the number of applicable builds you can use simply plummets. The casual playing teams using a few enchantments should not pay the price for those that stack them high just so they can go out without a team.

Teklord · Aug 25, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Easily countered (Forum's collective experience with PUGs)

1. There are many thousands that play this game and don't post on forums
2. This is but one forum on one site, among many
3. As with all things, you only hear about the bad. The complainy bitchy stuff. Point out a post about the awesome time a person had last night playing Sanctum Cay and meeting that new friend. Perhaps use that "search" function that people are always trying to push.

Therefore I can easily conclude that "the vast majority" is a poorly chosen phrase and does not reflect the truth of the matter.

Theos · Aug 25, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

Theos, that's crap. The vast majority of PUGs suck. They really suck. You can't blame people for not wanting to deal with them and the frustration that goes along with them.

EDIT: For the record, when I said soloing is more beneficial I was referring to XP, drops, and gold. Not just the precarious social situations that being in a group involves.

I would have to say you have crappy luck, all pugs I have encountered have been good or on par. Minus one or two new people who just didn't know UW, but that didn't ruin the game, made it more of a challenge. I have yet to encounter so bad of a PUG that you just want to shoot the people you just partied with. The only frustration I could see from people would be if they were monks who got idiots that did't know what energy was.